A survey by a Portuguese-American group has so far seen 90 percent of its almost five thousand respondents oppose moves to have people of Portuguese descent declared Hispanic.
The survey was set up by Palcus, which was created in 1991 by a select group of Portuguese-American professionals who recognised the need to address issues of importance to the Portuguese-American community of the United States.
The questionnaire of Portuguese-Americans resulted after it emerged the US Census Bureau is planning to add Portuguese to the Hispanic designation of ethnicity for the 2020 National Census.
“As there has been much debate about whether or not Portuguese should be considered Hispanic, Palcus is conducting national survey to gauge the overall sentiment of the Portuguese-American community on this issue”, the organisation said in explaining its idea to create a survey.
Palcus has been instrumental in the past harnessing support for Portuguese interests and sees itself as a consistent means of communication between the Embassy of Portugal and their representatives in the United States Congress.
Their efforts were fruitful in the early years with the establishment of the Dual Taxation Agreement (1996) and the Visa Waiver Program (1999).
Some notable personalities of Portuguese-descent are actor Tom Hanks (his mother is Portuguese), Keanu Reeves (actor), Katy Perry (singer/song-writer), Steve Perry (lead singer of Journey, who sang ‘Don’t Stop Believing’) and US congressman Tony Coelho.
For more information on the matter, visit: http://ojornal.com/portuguese-brazilian-news/2013/02/palcus-seeks-to-define-portuguese/#axzz2Mhije5CJ and http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/fedreg_1997standards
Comments
Hispanic stands for Espana. We have to go back to
ancient history and blame the Roman Empire for calling
the entire Iberian peninsula: Hispania... Got that?
Hispanic stands for Espana. We have to go back to
ancient history and blame the Roman Empire for calling
the entire Iberian peninsula: Hispania... Got that?
The amount of misinformation out there, and how quickly people are willing o share it, is disconcerting… Even by Portuguese people and/or descendants…
But what I find more entertaining, is that Americans (72% white) find it so hard to see us as whites (96% white). And the best they can do, is to put us in the same category as the Spaniards. This is a bit offensive, but has nothing to do with race…
To start off, Hispanic, Latin and/or Mediterranean does not define race.
Mediterranean defines a geographical region, Hispanic defines a cultural influence and Latin defines a language inheritance. And the funny thing is, we don't truly belong in any of those categories.
The only Mediterranean thing we have, is the gastronomy. We don't even share a Mediterranean climate. Can you honestly say that we belong in the same ethnic group as the Egyptians, Turkish or Syrians?
In terms of Latin language influence, we're probably as Latin as the French, Romanians or Greeks. They all had at some extend, the influence of the Latin language in their current one. And to be honest, shouldn't the Italians be the real Latins?
And the Hispanic term… Well, I really need to elaborate on this one.
Hispania was not a region on the Spanish side of the peninsula, and Lusitania another on the Portuguese side, as I read somewhere...
Hispania was a Roman province, that included all the peninsula. It was the peninsula itself.
Lusitania was in fact a region, that the Lusitanian tribe inhabited in Hispania, and most of it was in what it's now Portugal. But the Lusitanians weren't the only tribe, there were a few of them. Just to add to the confusion, one of them were called the Iberos (Iberian?).
The Hispanic word isn't actually related to the name of the roman province, but to the name Spain instead. If it was related to the province, no one in Latin America would be called Hispanic, would they? That logic eats itself.
Another funny “fact” I learned reading these posts, was that Portugal started off as being a part of Spain, or was a Spanish colony.
For those that don't know, when Portugal was “created” there were other 5 kingdoms (excluding the moors) on the rest of the peninsula. Leon, Castella, Navarra, Aragon and Catalunya. None of them were called Spain. In fact, Spain was only Spain when the two remaining kingdoms unified in 1479. Just to put it perspective, Portugal officially started its age of discoveries in 1432, when we first settled the Azores. Christopher Columbus landed in the Americas in 1492…
Also, colonization implies some form of domination, which didn't occurred at all. We lost the crown, because a Portuguese teenager idiot of a King thought he could kick some a** overseas, only to have his stinky b*tt served back to him, leaving no heirs behind. The only heir he had, was an uncle priest, who “officially” couldn't have any heirs either. Eventually, the next link on the chain was a Spanish ruler.
Therefore, for a brief space in time (about 60 years), Portugal was ruled by the same “person” (not king) as Spain. I'm stating a difference between person and King because, although he was the same person, he didn't even had the same title in both countries. He was Filipe I in Portugal, while he was Filipe II in Spain. He didn't even had the b*lls to annex both countries, nor did the next two Filipes, because they knew the sh*t storm they would raise, even though, they had the nerve to try to invade England with their “armada”. “How do you like them apples”?!
Now, and regarding race, I wonder what people think about British being white or not, when they claim that the Portuguese are not white, due to the fact that we had colonies everywhere. I wonder…
Regarding the Arabic occupation of the peninsula influencing our race, I also wonder what people think happened when the Europeans took it back. Love spreading? Collective hugging? Well, I wasn't there, but I can assure you the conquest was bit more hostile than that!!!
And to end this, because it's getting too long, the claim that someone made about the Portuguese being racists. Anyone making that claim should look up the first countries, if not the first, to abolish slavery in the world. If you found Denmark, then you found the wrong list. Search for slavery and not slave trade! To be honest, we were a bit hypocritical regarding that last one!!
Also, ask any Portuguese resident, what the country's reaction to the current Prime Minister's election was. He's of Indian descent, and his looks don't hide it.
The Portuguese resident will certainly tell you that his racial heritage wasn't even an issue, mainly because, the majority of the population doesn't really care about that! And the funny thing is, he didn't even won the election...
So, if you find a Portuguese (descendant) being racially offensive, that's probably more a reflection of the culture of the country he/she's at, than it has to do with his/her origins...
plans for them!!!????
It is critical to consider WHO gets to define or claim an ethnicity, WHERE you are, and WHEN you are making that claim. In Massachusetts, there is a history of discrimination against Portuguese people which is why the state considers individuals like my father to be minority business-owners. This essentially means the government recognizes that the construction industry still operates in a way that is bias and favors white-looking and native English speaking individuals. Interestingly, my father is second generation and a native English-speaker, but is constantly being mistaken for "Spanish" by "white" people who think that the terms Spanish, Hispanic, and Latino are interchangeable... how ironic.
Please know that the term Latino and Latin are NOT used in the same way at all (though there is a semantic connection, it is not in definition). In the USA, we currently use the term LATINO to describe individuals claiming any Latin American ethnicity, heritage, culture, or ancestry, but it is specifically used to describe individuals LIVING in the USA. It is a modern American term.
It is critical to consider WHO gets to define or claim an ethnicity, WHERE you are, and WHEN you are making that claim. In Massachusetts, there is a history of discrimination against Portuguese people which is why the state considers individuals like my father to be minority business-owners. This essentially means the government recognizes that the construction industry still operates in a way that is bias and favors white-looking and native English speaking individuals. Interestingly, my father is second generation and a native English-speaker, but is constantly being mistaken for "Spanish" by "white" people who think that the terms Spanish, Hispanic, and Latino are interchangeable... how ironic.
After reading a few posts by individuals living in the UK and Europe - please know that the term Latino and Latin are NOT used in the same way at all (though there is a semantic connection, it is not in definition). In the USA, we currently use the term LATINO to describe individuals claiming any Latin American ethnicity, heritage, culture, or ancestry, but it is specifically used to describe individuals LIVING in the USA. It is a modern American term.
And “Falai de castelhanos e de portugueses, porque espanhóis somos todos” Translation: I speak about the Castilians and Portuguese, because Spaniards we are all.
Hence, Portuguese and Spaniards are Hispanics in the true sense of the word, because the ancient Iberian Peninsula was called Iberia, which later became Hispania, which later became España.
Like it or not, politics and borders aside, the Portuguese and Spanish bloodlines were always mixed, and the Iberians are essentially one people. Portuguese royals-nobles-commoners married Spanish royals-nobles-commoners all time.
Actually that's even used by other European contries and it's the correct way to make reference to someone with portuguese ascendance, and in a different note, for example if someone has a portuguese father and a brazilian mother or vice-versa, we refer to them has luso-brazilian, and this can be applied to other nacionalities mixtures with portuguese, so i hope you all have understood the correct way to make reference to Portuguese "race" :)
I grew up in a large Port. neighborhood in Fall River, Ma., full of Portuguese immigrants. Many of them knew my parents from the old country.
We grew up poor, my mother was in a wheel chair, I never saw my father, my Port. father deserted my family when I was a baby. My Port. father left a women in a wheel chair with 3 little children to raise.
I had many aunts and uncles that lived in the same neighbor I grew up in, and they lived very well, and ate like kings, they had more than enough food.
We were so poor some days I had nothing to eat, often I went with out a meal for 3 to 4 days in a row.
All I had to eat some days was a cup of instant coffee for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Some days I had saltine crackers with my coffee, if the rats didn't get to them first.
That's right, we lived in a rat infested building owned by my Portuguese uncle.
I remember eating baloney sandwiches on Thanks giving day, while my Portuguese aunts, and uncles, ate Turkey with all the trimmings eating like kings.
All the while their sister in a wheel chair, and her mal-nourished children skin and bones were suffering, only dreaming of a thanks giving feast.
I believe we were ignored by my Portuguese family because we were poor.
I could go on, and on, all day about the bad experiences I had growing up in a Portuguese family.
I a nut shell, for me it was a very bad experience growing
up in a Portuguese family, and in their so called Portuguese culture. "What culture"?
I have a Portuguese name, but I am American, and proud of it. Please call me American, period.
not Portuguese.
Portuguese are latins.
the only 5 latins people are:
Portuguese, French, Italians, Spaniards and Roumanians.
Portuguese are not Hispanic!
The Portuguese act like what a social scientist would refer to as a "mental patient" living in the past and talking repetitively with Hate Speech toward Spain in particular. They always have their face buried in shame (like the guy in the picture). God help these mentally disturbed Portuguese +
I once had a good friend in the US asking me if Italian people were Latin. :-(
Portugal and Portuguese language (derived from Galicia) is older than Spain or Castillian (called Spanish today).
Portugal was never a colony of Spain, nor was occupied by any other invading force in its condition as a country. At one point had the same king as Spain, which was Spanish-born and a brilliant strategist. When his son came to power, things tumbled down and eventually a Portuguese-born king moved to the royal seat.
It is tiny country that kept more or less the same borders for the last 1000 years. Keep in mind that its language and borders exist earlier than Spain.
My grand-parents were Brazilian (South America), my father was Angolan (Africa), I am Portuguese (Europe) and my son is Micaelense (Azores islands). These are three continents and one island with similar cultural identity and languages.
You see how easy it is for any Portuguese-descendent to jump across the Atlantic ocean and not be Spanish?
They are mainly of celtic, roman and visigoth descent just like France, Spain, Italy and many other European countries...
We wouldn't consider classifying all Americans as ignorant pricks, would we? So please leave Europe alone and stop faffing around...
In the US (and UK), there is an uneducated view (perhaps even a bigoted view) on who the Portuguese (and Spanish) people are. Sadly, this form of racism has been all too common; it was evident against the Irish, Italians, and Jewish settlers of the 19th and early 20th century in the US. But in reality racism also exists in Southern European countries.
So, for the sake of accuracy alone (both culturally and genetically), the Portuguese people are European (wether pale skin or a shade of). Period! They are predominantly the same people that inhabited the Iberian Penninsula following the last glacial maximum. At the end of the day, one may use whatever label one wishes. Wether it is accurate, is a different point altogether.
We have never been Spaniards and never will be many wars were fought to ensure that and many Portuguese lives were lost to keep us out of Spain. Portugal has a unique culture, language and history and as a Portuguese-American I do not need a label that I did not choose so thanks but no thanks but we will choose how we identify ourselves individually.
My grandfather on my mother's side was Irish and he considered my Portuguese father to be black even though he was obviously not. He reasoning was that the moors conquered Portugal for 500 years and that all Portuguese have African blood in them. So I guess it's all who you ask. Honestly I don't think it's important. When the rare question is asked, I say I'm American.
included Portugal and Portugal is Hispanic. Now if Portuguese are ashamed to belong to the same group that includes the Latin American indians turned into Hispanics you need to pay for your ancestor rape of the am erindians. And accept your amerindians blood cousins.
by marcelo pacheco from Other on 01-03-2013 07:41:00
This is an old thread but always valid and as the time goes by it will be the center for discussion. In answer to Marcelo Pacheco saying that Portuguese aren't Latinos and neither are any Portuguese speaking Country, this is a lie what Pacheco is saying and he should really study Roman history before making such stupid comments.
The Latins are the following: Italians,first and foremost, then French, Romanians. Portuguese and Spanish. They are called Latins or Latino which is the same word because of their association to the Romans who spoke the Latin language and who imposed their Roman laws and Christianity. When the Portuguese came her with the Spaniards and the French their spread their Latin-derived languages throughout what the French called "Amerique Latine" . This is why the continent was called Latin America because of the Latin-derived language spoken here: French,Portuguese and Spanish.
Latino is a language and not a Race and not an Ethnicity like the "Hispanics", the mestizos from Latin America would like to be identified with just because they cannot find another term to identify themselves and apparently the U.S. Census Bureau is going full speed with pandering to these people.
I agree with Portuguese people that they are a distinct group and should not be called Hispanic.
Pacheco should also know that Latin America is only a geographical location and people are classified by their Race and not by where they come or originate from. If Latin American want to know their Race they will have to look into their mirrors and find out which race and mixing of Races they identify with. Latino is not their Race.
Anyway, I'm against that classification of Portuguese as Hispanic, cause it's incorrect, plain and simple.
Portugal was a colonial power for over 5 centuries and our people are obviously a mix of Portuguese with Indian (from india), African and so many more. We have one of the most diverse genetic codes in the world.
We have our similarities with the Spaniards mainly because our territorial proximity and it ends there.
If you want to search deeper, we even have more affinities with the Celts than with the Romans. The cultural influence of Celts is far more visible in Portuguese culture than any other. The language is the only link to latin (which has nothing to do with the word Hispanic).
Does the USA plan to label Italians as Hispanic too? If they consider Latin=Hispanic, then Italians are the real Latins.
The term "Latin" only applies to linguistic origin of romance languages - Portuguese, Italian, French, Spanish, and Romanian. Some people mix up linguistic origin with race, BUT they are two different things!
Northern Europe = White/Nordics
Southern Europe = White/Mediterraneans
South and Central America = Latinos/Hispanics
Geographically, Portugal's side on the Iberian peninsula was called Lusitania. Spain's was called Hispania. So geographically speaking, we had Lusitanic for the Portuguese, Hispanic for the Spaniards, and even Italic for the Italians.
The island of Hispaniola is shared by the Dominican Republic and Haiti. Are we also going to label French speaking Haitians as Hispanic????!!!!!
Some people ignore important facts and mix ethnicity with linguistic origin. As a language, Portuguese, like Italian, Spanish, French, and Romanian, is considered Latin, but this has nothing to do with race. This is the root cause for the ignorance of those Portuguese claiming not to be white. If you are Portuguese, you are White part of the the Mediterranean variant.
As for geography, Portugal was part of Lusitania, not part of Hispania. So, we have Lusitanic for Portuguese, Hispanic for Spaniards, and Italic for Italians. But who uses this terminology anyways? Plus, this terminology does not define race in any way or shape.
I've heard african american cable news commentators, ignorant of the fact that their are African descendants in many Latin American countries. They were surprised that a black american girl entering Colombia illegally was able to pose as a Colombian national.
Heard two others, confusing ethnicity with nationality, arguing whether someone was black or Puerto Rican as though an individual could not be both.
The reality is that people have been migrating and mixing everywhere from the beginning and national boundaries have changed many times, so the classifications are divisive and generally not helpful but If there is any benefit for classifying people, perhaps to ID health risks then it should attempt to be meaningful and not be selectively based on language for some, and ethnicity or nationality for others.
If Portugal was part of Hispanola and the residents of Brazil are considered Hispanic then as far as I am concerened the government can consider me Hispanic. It will only help my business.
Again, I consider myself 100% American but if the yahoo's in Washington D.C. want to make all these stupid rules the best thing we can do is let them call me what they want and take advantage of it on the backside.
-B. Cabral
All that said we as descendants and Americans have a moral obligation to retain our ancestral heritage while being the best citizens we can as Americans. The United States is and remains the single greatest country to date.
The above aside I have no desire to be lumped in with the cesspool that is Spain's and it's Hispanic history.
I enjoy my long Portuguese (LUSO) history and the contributions made by the Portuguese and learn from the not so good parts. Same goes for my German heritage as well.
why classify human beings at all, and the world attacked south-africa? apartheid, you americans are the most racist lot of them all.
proudly south-african portuguese
Never be ashamed if you have Spanish or Portuguese heritage. Those two countries used to be world powers and were the leaders in exploration and made great empires.
Go ahead, classify Portuguese and Spanish as Hispanics all you want, we know what we are.
iam portuges iam not espanhol
Im sure this would never be considered in Canada!
1. Portuguese=European
2. Hispanic=South America
Diane Cotuinho....thank God we don't have retards like you lol
Portuguese people emmigrated to the USA from Portugal, the Azorean and Madeira archipelagos hundreds of years ago. Portuguese people are also called Luso; deriving from the writings of Luis de Camoes "Os Lusiadas".
Portuguese people are from the Iberia Peninsula and are WHITE.
What does that mean?
You have to see this movie to understand more about that people...
http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/census-bureau-portuguese-not-hispanic/article/2523411
1. Portuguese=European
2. Hispanic=South America
"Hispanic" means anything related to a Spanish-speaking country, period. It may also mean anything related to the Iberia from Roman times which was called "Hispania" and that's what inspired the name of Spain (España) when it was founded in the 15th century. However, just like "Romans" are now only people from the city of Rome, "Hispanics" are now only people with origins in Spain or the Spanish language, and the people from the old "Hispania" (now called "Iberia") are simply "Iberians".
It's all really simple if people just knew their history and culture. Portuguese-Americans should not allow ignorance to prevail.
I find it hard to believe you wouldn't have done some research before posting your story. The last thing we need is misinformed information.
There are 2 countries there, Spain and Portugal. Therefore, upon the 14th/15th centuries discoveries many countries and territories were colonized by both these countries. Around the 19th century, and to distinguish "3 shades of white race - the Caucasian race (also Caucasoid, Europid, or Europoid) - within Europe, came out within the Meyers Konversations-Lexikon the Aryan, the Semitic and the Hamitic.
Upon this designation Spain and Portugal territories were designated as Aryan areas.
Today, the Caucasian "stamp" prevails and that is what we are. Caucasian.
So, this far you can either call Portuguese descendants Portuguese-Americans and Spanish descendant Spanish-Americans or simply Caucasian to both.
As for the term Hispanic, many people commented before me where the term comes from.
The issue is not to be named Hispanic or Russian, but it is to be named wrongly.
All that lumping us in accomplishes, is to improve the demographic statistics of hispanic peoples. Now you just have to ask yourselves why? Why does the census want to do that?
I'll be sharing roasted sardinhas with my so-called 'anglo' friends in the yard this Summer, loving life.
You can walk around thinking of yourself as 'the other,' (snort!) with a stupid imaginary chip on your shoulder of your own making. It is your choice.
Anyway, to add to the discussion I'll paste here what I wrote on a facebook page about this survey and all the hoopla... It's long but I hope to hear what others think:
Well this is interesting and complex on many, many levels. First off, I can already imagine the barrage of negative (and racist) sentiment and comments from certain sectors of the Portuguese-American community who have forgotten their roots and forgotten that we too were once (and to some extent continue to be) looked down upon and considered racially and ethnically inferior by the white Anglo power structure.
Secondly, the term "hispanic" in and of itself is extremely problematic when used to refer to persons who trace their lineage to Latin America/the Western Hemisphere south of what is now the US. It completely erases and ignores the fact that many, if not the overwhelming majority, of those considered "hispanic" by the US government are actually indigenous, African, or some combination of indigenous, African, Asian, European, etc. It is a whitening term, born in Spanish colonialism, and one that has run its course.
Thirdly, if Portuguese were classified under the designation of Hispanic, it also negates the unique and separate cultural and linguistic identity of Portugal and the Portuguese language and culture that is not -- as some people would have it -- simply an extension of Spain or "Spain light."
Fourthly, we also need to include in this discussion the question of "whiteness" and how "being white" is a social/cultural construct. Portuguese were amongst the many ethnic groups (Irish, Italian, Eastern European, etc.) who were not initially accepted as "white" in the US... and I would argue that to some extent we are still not, and that that should be a point of critical thinking, dialogue, and pride rather than derision or shame.
And lastly, for now, it also begs the question of how we think about folks from Brazil, Cabo Verde, etc. I am all for a Portuguese-American identity that celebrates our unique culture, our diaspora and the political and economic reasons for that diaspora; that supports, partners with, and respects other immigrant groups because they are us and we are them, and that is anti-racist and embracing of all humanity -- especially those who have had to leave their countries of origin due to circumstances beyond their control, as far too many of us and our families have had to do -- while also being proud of and preserving the Portuguese language, food, customs, identity, and nature of the Portuguese people as diasporic and impacted emotionally, psychologically, culturally, and economically by diaspora and emigration.
Saudade.
In other words, I am for Portuguese pride that does not include us being a bunch of racist assholes who kick down the ladder after we've used it to climb to the next level. And if my language is harsh it's because I've seen too many of my family and friends assimilate and try to anglicize and "fit in" with white conservative Anglo America to the point of forgetting who they are and where they come from.
Look at the survey results and look at the responses to the question "Do you think that the Portuguese community should come together to prevent..." near the end of the survey. It's disgusting. That's just what we need in the present political climate -- for more people to dump on "hispanics"... a public campaign by the Portuguese community saying "no, we're not like those people, we're better" (because that's essentially how it will come across). We should know better. It's shameful:
http://survey.constantcontact.com/survey/a07e72knw3jhd9t907i/results
Other links of interest:
http://www.portstudies.umassd.edu/pas/community_culture/community_culture_toc.htm
"Portagee" - http://bit.ly/YGmXEt
http://www.academia.edu/2022161/Not_Quite_White_the_Ethno-Racial_Identity_of_a_Portagee
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060924/NEWS/70228109/-1/special01
<< "They are subjected to the same types of social exclusion of other legally codified minority groups, yet do not have the legal standing as a minority that would allow them to address the problems," he wrote in a paper titled "The Shadow Minority," presented last year at UMass Dartmouth.
Others have argued the Portuguese have suffered institutional discrimination and bigotry here not only as a result of their status as working-class immigrants but also due to some negative episodes in the region's history. >>
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